Stocks/AAG.DE

AAG.DE

Aumann AG
Industrials·Industrial - Machinery
$13.85
$179M market cap
Claude Rating
7/10BUY
Revenue
$180.8M
Free Cash Flow
$35.5M
Rev Growth
-38.4%
FCF Margin
19.6%
P/FCF
5.0x
EV/FCF
1.0x
Fwd EV/EBITDA
3.3x
Fair Value
$17.50
Upside
+26.4%

Aumann AG manufactures and sells specialized machines and production lines for components of electric and classic drive chain systems in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Europe, China, and internationally. It operates through E-Mobility and Classic segments. The E-Mobility segment manufactures and sells specialized machines and automated production lines for the automotive industry; e-traction engines, power-on-demand units, and electronic components; and energy storage and conversion systems,

2-Year Price History

$13.50-24.4%
$10$12$14$16$18volMay 24Sep 24Jan 25May 25Sep 25Jan 26May 26

Quarterly Financials & Projections

Quarterly Waterfall (EUR M)
PeriodRevEBITDAOpInNIOCFFCFCapExCashDebtSharesROICIntCovEV/EBITDA
Est2028-Q145.03.6--1.6---4.5-0.9159.8----------
Est2027-Q450.05.0--2.8--15.0-1.3164.3----------
Est2027-Q345.03.8--1.8--2.3-0.9149.3----------
Est2027-Q243.03.2--1.3---2.2-1.0147.0----------
Est2027-Q140.02.6--0.8---4.8-0.8149.2----------
Est2026-Q443.23.2--1.5--10.8-1.1154.0----------
Est2026-Q340.02.4--0.8---2.0-0.7143.2----------
Est2026-Q239.52.2--0.6---3.2-0.8145.2----------
Act2026-Q137.34.02.52.0-3.5-3.7-0.2148.34.212.910.5%85.6x0.8x
Act2025-Q446.36.76.75.434.433.0-1.4152.74.712.929.0%12.8x0.5x
Act2025-Q349.47.35.33.911.410.8-0.5120.85.212.926.0%128.3x2.2x
Act2025-Q247.85.33.22.5-3.7-4.8-1.0110.75.812.915.8%83.8x2.1x
Act2025-Q160.57.35.03.9-3.7-4.7-1.0139.66.314.423.2%66.5x0.7x
Act2024-Q479.211.48.85.914.313.0-1.3145.16.914.631.8%16.3x0.9x
Act2024-Q391.711.28.76.418.117.4-0.8133.57.414.733.1%66.2x2.6x
Act2024-Q276.99.110.95.3-13.1-14.7-1.7117.07.914.755.8%63.9x5.3x
Act2024-Q164.56.35.13.9-0.4-1.7-1.2137.88.614.920.4%32.3x6.6x
Act2023-Q490.07.85.52.634.333.3-0.9143.88.814.822.1%12.2x4.6x
Act2023-Q380.75.44.93.313.912.8-1.1113.58.114.821.5%22.2x7.1x
Act2023-Q263.23.03.42.413.812.5-1.3102.68.315.016.1%22.9x12.1x
Act2023-Q155.73.22.41.4-20.2-21.1-0.997.58.915.29.0%17.9x8.8x
Act2022-Q464.93.30.90.234.232.2-2.0120.68.915.33.2%10.3x7.3x
Act2022-Q358.22.21.20.7-9.1-9.2-0.286.99.815.35.3%16.5x--
Act2022-Q247.41.90.60.49.08.1-0.997.310.815.33.5%12.6x--
Act2022-Q144.91.1-0.1-0.4-5.4-5.8-0.461.211.915.3-0.4%6.3x--

AI Analysis

LLM Evaluations

Claude7/10BUYFV: $17.50

Aumann is a deeply contrarian opportunity trading at just ~0.15x EV/Revenue with EUR 144M net cash against a EUR 174M market cap, essentially getting the operating business for free. The E-Mobility downturn is severe but cyclical, not structural — global BEV sales continue growing and the postponed European automotive capex cycle must eventually resume. Meanwhile, the Next Automation pivot into Aerospace, Defense, and CleanTech is gaining real traction with 128% order intake growth. Management has demonstrated excellent margin discipline (13.8% EBITDA in FY2025 despite 35% revenue decline) and the fortress balance sheet eliminates any liquidity risk, allowing Aumann to invest through the downturn and pursue accretive M&A. The primary risk is a prolonged E-Mobility capex freeze, but at current valuations the stock is pricing in permanent impairment that seems unlikely given the company's technological leadership and diversification progress.

Catalyst Recovery in European automotive E-Mobility capex decisions in H2 2026/2027, successful M&A announcement in Next Automation (particularly US expansion), or Next Automation order intake exceeding EUR 100M run-rate, demonstrating the diversification thesis is working and reducing cyclical dependence on automotive.
Risk Prolonged European automotive capex freeze extending through 2027-2028, combined with failure to scale Next Automation fast enough, leading to sustained margin compression and cash burn that erodes the net cash position — turning the company into a slow-motion value trap.
Trend
DETERIORATING
Mgmt
7/10
Quarter
4/10
Exp. Move
-3.0%

Latest Earnings Call

Transcript Summary

Aumann AG's Q1 2026 results reflect a dual-track performance. The company experienced a 38% year-over-year revenue decline to EUR 37.3 million, driven by a 45% slump in the E-Mobility segment as automotive OEMs delay capital investments. However, the Next Automation segment focusing on Aerospace, Defense, and Clean Tech showed significant growth, with order intake rising 128% to EUR 19.4 million. Despite the revenue contraction, Aumann maintained a healthy 10.8% EBITDA margin in Q1, although full-year guidance was set at a more conservative 6-8% on EUR 160 million in revenue. The company balance sheet remains exceptionally strong, with EUR 144 million in net cash and a 68.3% equity ratio. Management is actively seeking M&A targets to bolster its specialized automation capabilities outside the automotive sector. During the Q&A, leadership emphasized that while E-Mobility decisions are currently postponed, underlying demand for electric vehicles remains high. Aumann is leveraging its core motor and battery assembly expertise to capture new markets, particularly in drone production and aviation, ensuring long-term resilience through a diversified business model.

Valuation & Metrics

Market Stats

Price$13.85
Market Cap$179M
Enterprise Value$35M
P/S Ratio1.0x
P/FCF5.0x
EV/FCF1.0x
FCF Margin (TTM)19.6%
FCF Yield19.8%
Dividend Yield (TTM)--
Annual Dilution-10.0%
CurrencyEUR

TTM Financial Snapshot

Revenue$180.8M
Net Income$13.8M
Free Cash Flow$35.5M

Revenue Growth (YoY)-38.4%
EBITDA Margin12.9%
Net Margin7.6%
FCF Margin19.6%
CapEx % of Revenue1.7%
SBC % of Revenue0.0%
ROIC20.3%
WC Change % Rev11.5%
Interest Coverage33.8x

DCF Fair Value Estimate

$20.78
+50.1% upside
Fair Enterprise Value$124M
− Net Debt$-144M
= Fair Equity$268M
Revenue Growth12.5% → 3.0%
FCF Margin19.6% → 8.0%
Discount Rate15.0%
Terminal EV/FCF14.0x

Forward Outlook & Risk

Forward Projections & Estimates

NTM Revenue Growth-10.0%
Forward FCF Margin0.5%
Forward EBITDA Margin6.4%
Forward P/FCF213.0x
Forward EV/FCF41.4x
Forward Int. Coverage32.0x
Model Risk Score7/10
Bankruptcy Odds0%
Est. Borrow Rate4.5%
Terminal EV/FCF14.0x
LT Growth3.0%
LT FCF Margin8.0%

Employees

Headcount891
Revenue / Employee$202,859
Gross Profit / Employee$-623

Institutional Ownership

Headline & net flow

NEUTRAL
Net flow · still filing
No float data — flow unavailable.

Ownership composition

Active
0.2%(+0.0% YoY)
1 filers
hedge / family / endowment
Retail funds
Fidelity, Schwab, 401(k)
Passive
0.0%(+0.0% YoY)
0 filers
Vanguard, iShares, SPDR
Market makers
0.0%(+0.0% YoY)
0 filers
Citadel, Susquehanna
Insiders
Form 4 — latest per insider
0%25%50%75%100%2020-032020-092021-032021-09
ActiveRetail fundsPassiveMarket makersRetail direct

Trading behavior

Smart-money alpha (lifetime, %/qtr)NEUTRAL
Holders
+0.34%
avg per quarter
Holders (ex-self)
excl. this stock
Buyers (this Q)
+0.00%
0 buyers · $0.00B in
Sellers (this Q)
+0.34%
1 sellers · $0.00B out
alpha coverage: 100% of $ has a lifetime-alpha record
Holder behavior (holder profile)source: holder
On big dips (−10%+)
+0.2%
how holders react when this stock falls
On quiet Qs
+1.6%
−10% to +10% baseline
On rallies (+10%+)
-0.5%
how they react when this stock rises
Holders' portfolio flow this Q
-4.1%
outflows — trims may be forced
Sellers' portfolio flow this Q
-4.1%
Sellers shed AUM broadly — partly forced.

Top-5 holders · 0.0%

Top Holders Over Time

5-year share-count history (top 10 holders by peak, incl. exited) + price

06K12K18K24K2021-062021-09
hover the chart for per-quarter detailprice (right axis)
Cutter & CO Brokerage, Inc.23K

Corporate

Dividends

TTM Dividend/Share$1.36
Dividend Yield9.8%

Counter-Thesis

Counter-Thesis & Recent News

📰 Recent News

Aumann AG reported a severe 38% year-over-year revenue decline for Q1 2026, falling to €37.30 million. This follows a weak FY2025 where annual revenue plummeted 34.7% to €204 million. Management has issued a downbeat 2026 forecast, expecting revenue to shrink further to approximately €160 million—nearly half of its 2024 levels (€312.3 million). The company cited 'challenging conditions' and extreme investment restraint in the European automotive market (Investing.com, EQS News).

🐻 Bear Case

The core bear thesis rests on a collapse in the E-mobility growth engine. Order intake in E-mobility fell 44.4% in 2025, and total order backlog crashed 45% to €62 million by the end of Q1 2026. While the company maintained margins in 2025 through cost-cutting, guidance for 2026 anticipates significant margin contraction to 6-8% (down from 13.8% in 2025), suggesting the 'leaner' operations cannot offset the massive loss in scale. Bears argue that Aumann is a 'value trap' where shrinking revenues are outpacing efficiency gains (Simply Wall St, EQS News).

🚩 Red Flags

Technically, the stock was recently downgraded to a 'Sell candidate' by systems like StockInvest.us due to falling volume and negative technical signals. On the fundamental side, the consensus among 8 tracked analysts has shifted toward 'Hold/Sell,' with 4 analysts now holding 'Sell' or 'Strong Sell' ratings as of May 2026. Furthermore, the debt-to-equity ratio has been flagged as high at 2.39 by some market data providers, potentially stressing the balance sheet if the revenue downturn persists (ValueInvesting.io, MarketBeat).

⚔️ Competitive Threats

Aumann faces an existential threat from the broader downturn in the European automotive supply chain. Reports indicate 38% of European suppliers are now operating at marginal or negative profitability. Increased competition from cheaper international automation providers and shifting political climates regarding EV subsidies and tariffs (especially related to China and the US) are creating a 'perfect storm' that de-incentivizes Aumann's primary customers from making long-term capital investments (CLEPA/McKinsey Survey, EQS News).

💬 Customer Sentiment

Customer sentiment is described by management as 'subdued' and 'cautious.' Major automotive OEMs are delaying forward-looking investment decisions and cutting costs. This is reflected in Aumann's shrinking order intake, which fell 33% year-over-year in Q1 2026, highlighting a lack of confidence among its client base regarding the immediate future of E-mobility production lines (Seeking Alpha, Investing.com).

Full Earnings Call Transcript

Full Earnings Call Transcript — Q1 • 2026-05-12

Operator: Welcome to the earnings call of the Aumann AG regarding the Q1 figures of 2026. The company's CEO, Sebastian Roll and CFO, Jan-Henrik Pollitt, will guide you through the figures in a moment, followed by a Q&A session via audio line and chat. And with that, I'm handing over to you, Sebastian.
Sebastian Roll: Yes. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for the kind introduction. I'm very pleased to have you with us today. For those I haven't met yet, let me quickly introduce myself. So my name is Sebastian Roll, and I'm the CEO of Aumann. And joining me on the call today is our CFO, Jan-Henrik Pollitt. So we really appreciate your time and your interest in Aumann. And in the next few minutes, we will walk you through a brief overview of Aumann, the latest market trends in E-mobility and our progress in our segment, Next Automation and of course, a look at our financial performance in Q1 2026. So let's start, as always, with a quick overview of our business model. At Aumann, we design and build high-end, fully automated production lines tailored precisely to the specific needs of our international customers. With decades of experience in automation technology, many global industry leaders around the world trust Aumann to deliver innovative and reliable solutions. One of our competitive advantage is staying ahead of market trends, especially in fast-growing markets. This allows us to quickly develop customized automation solutions. That is why the automotive industry, especially the E-mobility sector remains so attractive for Aumann. At the same time, the robotics and automation market is growing rapidly, driven by several long-term trends like demographic change, labor shortages and increasing cost pressure. These developments also support the growth of our Next Automation segment, where we use our automation experience. So let's take a quick look at Aumann's solutions portfolio. So our portfolio ranges from modular solutions to complex process solutions and in the end, fully integrated large-scale production solutions. At the modular level, we provide standardized production sales and these systems allows our customers to react quickly and cost efficiently to changing market requirements. Building on this, Aumann designs production lines for more advanced manufacturing processes, including technologies such as winding, coating and testing. The goal is always to implement special process steps in the most efficient way. In addition, Aumann offers fully customized turnkey solutions designed for maximum output while maintaining the highest quality standards. Thanks to this broad range of solutions Aumann can support the different production strategies of our customers. So this slide shows how Aumann became a technology leader in E-mobility. Starting from the traditional automotive business, e-mobility was identified as a growth market. Through targeted M&A, Aumann took the first step into E-motor technologies. Building on our know-how, we developed different solutions for the rotor, quickly followed by solutions for the stator and finally, for the full E-motor assembly. After the E-motor, we leveraged our expertise to develop large-scale production solutions for battery modules and packs. In addition, we introduced our own modular system, for example, in inverter assembly, but also very useful now in the field of Next automation. Furthermore, we have expanded into converting technology, enabling us to offer our production solutions for example, electrode manufacturing. Aumann is a leading provider of turnkey solutions in E-mobility. So this illustration shows the drivetrain of a fully electric car and most of these components can be produced on Aumann production line. From the outset, we have focused strongly on the e-Drive unit. Even today, our customers still use different approaches to stator and rotor design. As a turnkey provider, we provide the latest production solutions for both. Beyond that, we have expanded our portfolio with modular production systems, for example, for electronic components such as sensors and inverters. This enables us to offer flexible and scalable solutions perfectly tailored to each customer's needs. Let me now turn to our battery portfolio. Here, Aumann benefits from its strong position in the area of energy storage. So we cover the full range from battery modules and packs to the cell-to-X solutions. This expertise allows us to meet customer needs and develop new solutions for next-generation battery technologies. Let's take a look at the E-mobility market today and in the future. So BEV, battery electric vehicles sales continue to gain traction. Last year, in 2025, more than 13.7 million were sold worldwide. This means a plus of 30% in comparison to 2024. China stays in the lead with 9 million units, but Europe follows with strong growth, reaching more than 2.2 million units with 26% increase compared to 2024, including Germany with an impressive 43% growth. The U.S. market, which currently shows the lowest volume in comparison remains at least stable at 1.2 million units. So by 2030, BEVs are expected to make up 40% of sales by 2035, even 2/3. So this means overall, rising BEV sales are expected to drive new investments in the near future. So let us now turn to our key commercial focus also in 2026. As mentioned earlier, we are expanding beyond the automotive sector and focusing more on industries that need greater efficiency, higher productivity and less manual work. So at the same time, rising labor costs and the shortage of skilled workers are accelerating the shift towards automation. So in this context, we are pushing our Next Automation segment. So this segment focuses on growth industries beyond automotive, such as defense, Aerospace, Clean Tech and Life Science. So let's take a closer look at this segment. So in our Next Automation segment, we have defined 3 strategic growth areas. Aerospace, as you know, is gaining momentum. Demand in civil aviation is rising and Boeing and Airbus are forecasting more than 40,000 new aircraft over the next 20 years. So against this backdrop, Aumann secured first orders in 2026, supporting civil aircraft production ramp-ups. At the same time, defense budgets are boosting. Drones, as you know, are our focus. Drones combines exactly what we do best, electric motors, battery packs and full system integration, including end-of-line testing just like in E-mobility. So this means same technology, new applications. Therefore, we easily developed integrated drone assembly lines and secured our first, unfortunately, still small orders. So besides Aerospace and Defense, Clean Tech is also booming. Here, Aumann wins in 2026, orders for automated solar module recycling solutions and membrane manufacturing systems for fuel cell application targeting industrial charging infrastructure and off-grid markets. Finally, Life Science. So this sector benefits from long-term trends such as an aging population, strong investment levels and attractive margins. So starting the end of last year, Aumann entered the pharma market with solutions producing for skin, delivered patches and oral thin films. So now I would like to hand over to Jan.
Jan-Henrik Pollitt: Sorry, I have a technical problem. We need to switch the slides. Okay. Thank you, Sebastian, and also a warm welcome from my side. Sorry for the technical issue. I would now like to share with you the financial figures for the first quarter of 2026. Let me start with a brief overview. We entered the year aware that revenue would continue to face pressure as a result of the softer order intake in 2024 and 2025. At the same time, we stayed firmly focused on driving efficiency across the organization to protect our margins and ensure continued profitability. And this focus continues to guide our actions today. It is important to note that the investment environment in the automotive industry continues to be characterized by a high degree of caution and delayed decision-making. This cautious spending behavior remains evident across both OEMs and suppliers. At the same time, we are seeing encouraging momentum in our Next Automation segment with improvements in both order intake and order backlog. This indicates that our intensified sales and business development efforts are gradually translating into tangible market traction. Against this backdrop, in Q1 2026, revenue reached EUR 37 million, which is 38% below the previous year. Profitability remains solid with a double-digit EBITDA margin of 10.8%. Order intake totaled EUR 34 million, down 33% year-over-year. Order backlog decreased from EUR 173 million to EUR 120 million at the end of March 2026. And in total, our balance sheet remains very robust with a net cash of EUR 144 million. With this foundation, let us now dive into some details. Across segments, we achieved a revenue of EUR 37.3 million, representing a year-over-year decrease of 38%. Revenue in the first quarter is typically still seasonally weaker, but it is in line with our full year guidance. The main driver of this decline was the E-Mobility segment, where revenue decreased by 45%. Revenue in the Next Automation segment was with EUR 9.3 million on previous year's level. Looking ahead, we will now focus on profitability and earnings to complete the financial picture. Despite the decline in revenue, our profitability remained robust. EBITDA came in at EUR 4 million, down 39% year-over-year, with an EBITDA margin of 10.8%, which is stable at a solid level. This performance was based on a good project execution in some projects even better than expected. And as a result, some conservative risk provisions of the year-end closing were not required in Q1, leading to a positive effect of approximately EUR 1.3 million in other operating income from the release of provisions. Let us now turn to order intake and order backlog. As already mentioned, the overall investment climate continues to be challenging. Currently, especially in the automotive sector, long-term and forward-looking decisions are subdued, which impacts our figures. In response, we are optimizing costs and capacities while actively pursuing new sales opportunities and selected M&A leads. We see clear growth potential and remain confident in capturing it. In Q1 2026, total order intake declined 33% year-over-year to EUR 34.4 million, but the Next Automation segment is showing progress. Order intake increased 128% year-over-year to EUR 19.4 million. Our sales pipeline is also growing, demonstrating the potential of the Next automation initiatives to drive future revenue. As a result, total order backlog declined from EUR 173.4 million to EUR 119.5 million at the end of March. However, the Next Automation segment continues to gain momentum with its order backlog increasing 50% to EUR 57.6 million. Let me now move to the next slide and walk you through the segment figures, starting with the E-Mobility segment. In the E-mobility segment, order intake of EUR 26 million is 65% under the previous year due to the mentioned market conditions. As a result, order backlog decreased by 45% to EUR 62 million, and at the same time, revenue decreased by 45% to EUR 28 million. EBITDA is declining due to volume to EUR 3.7 million after 3 months, which means a strong margin of 13.3% after 12.2% in the previous year. In the Next Automation segment, order intake increased year-over-year, as said, by 128% to EUR 19.4 million due to the new positioning. End of March 2026, order backlog amounted EUR 57.6 million, an increase of 50%. Revenue stands at EUR 9.3 million on par with the previous year. EBITDA declined slightly to EUR 1.0 million, corresponding to an EBITDA margin of 10.4%. However, this is primarily attributable to the project mix in Q1. By the end of March 2026, our balance sheet continues to be very solid with an equity ratio of 68.3% and EUR 148 million cash, of which EUR 144 million are net cash. Our solid financial foundation will continue to allow us to respond flexibly to market opportunities to drive the expansion of the Next Automation segment, both organically and through M&A activities and to ensure further shareholder participation. To conclude, we would like to confirm our guidance for 2026. We expect a mixed but well-balanced development across all segments. In E-Mobility revenue is likely to decline due to a lower starting order backlog. In Next Automation, we see continued positive momentum. We expect total revenue of around EUR 160 million with an EBITDA margin of 6% to 8%. Our diversified business model provides stability and supports a resilient and profitable year. Let me hand over to Sebastian again.
Sebastian Roll: Yes. Thanks, Jan. So let me briefly summarize the key takeaways. So as expected, the market environment in the automotive industry remains challenging also in the first quarter. As a result, our order intake declined to EUR 34 million, mainly driven by weaker demand in E-mobility. But at the same time, our Next Automation segment developed very positively step-by-step with strong growth in areas such as Aerospace and Clean Tech. And this clearly confirms that our diversification strategy is working. So despite these headwinds, as Jan said, we started the year with a double-digit EBITDA margin of 10.8%, so almost on the level of last year. For the full year 2026, we continue to expect revenues of around EUR 160 million with a profitable EBITDA margin of 6% to 8%. In addition, Aumann remains in a very strong financial position with net liquidity of more than EUR 140 million and a very solid equity ratio. And that clearly set us apart from most of our competitors and give us the freedom to shape 2026. So our clear focus is to accelerate our business in Next Automation, both organically and through targeted M&A opportunities. So thank you very much for your attention. We are now happy to take your questions.
Operator: [Operator Instructions] And so far there are no questions coming in. There's the first hand up. [indiscernible], you should be able to speak now.
Unknown Analyst: So I have 2 questions, if I may. The first, you mentioned the sales pipeline in Next Automation is growing, but you didn't mention the E-mobility sales pipeline, especially I assume it's also shrinking like the order entry. Is it right? Or is there some stabilizing element?
Sebastian Roll: I mean it's more of the problem, as Jan mentioned already that we still have, I would say, a significant E-mobility pipeline, but the decisions right now are postponed as we have also had the situation in the end of 2025. So we hope for sure that the Iran crisis is leading as it is already to a higher oil and fuel prices. And what we see right now, for example, in the first quarter 2026 is that BEV sales are also going up, especially in Europe by 26%, in Germany even by 41%. And for sure, we think, in our opinion, the behavior of the customer is changing right now due to these facts. And we see a growing interest right now in electric vehicles. And for sure, then later on, we are quite sure that we can see investment cases again or that these decisions, which were postponed are now coming step by step.
Unknown Analyst: Okay. And the second one, I think for a few quarters now, we talked about M&A opportunities. I assume one or the other, you missed it or it didn't realize at all. So yes, maybe you can comment a little bit on the past targets and future targets as far as they are the same or there's some difference in that.
Sebastian Roll: I would say -- I mean, we didn't lost one. So we are still in some different -- we're still looking at different targets, to be honest. What we changed a little bit, but I think this is something also we have mentioned here in the last call is that for sure, we are now more focusing and targeting on M&A opportunities in the area of Next Automation. So that's for us very important right now to find there, let's say, some special processes because if you have one special process in the area of, for example, Aviation, it's much easier than to automate the topics around. It's nearly the same what we did in the -- what we did in the past for E-mobility. So we have these winding processes. So the core was the winding process, but then we developed everything around -- every automation around. So it's easy for us to automate something, but if you have a special process, then you are not just a turnkey provider or something like this, then you are really the one who can execute very complex processes and in the end of the day, customer needs.
Operator: And next line is Charles Michaels.
Sebastian Roll: You're asking for the EUR 100 million.
Charles Michaels: No, no. I'd like to turn to just the progress you're making in Next Automation. So now as a percentage of your order book and order intake, the numbers are getting to be large. When do you think Next Automation might surpass your traditional -- well, not traditional, your electric vehicle business?
Sebastian Roll: Okay. I hope not so soon, not because not pushing Next Automation, but also I think or I hope that still, as I said, E-mobility is also, again, an increasing business. But nevertheless, I mean, Charlie, you asked us, I think, 1 year ago, if it is possible to come to EUR 100 million in Next Automation. And I think we are on the way. We have to see and we have to look carefully from quarter-to-quarter. But honestly, we are now in all these different areas, which we haven't expected 1 year before. And as we said in the last quarter or in Q4, we did already EUR 27 million order intake in Next Automation. Now we are at EUR 19 million for Q1. So important is that we are building up the sales pipeline. And as I said also before, it's not so easy because Next Automation is taking more time. So you're working with new industries, you're working with new customers. And at the end of the day, with new product solutions. But I think the topic is going and moving in the right direction right now with Next Automation.
Charles Michaels: Well, congratulations. Clearly, that was a good decision to focus on this new business, not completely new. But I mean, if you look at where you stand today without it, it would be really difficult from an overall growth perspective. In Next Automation, is there one particular segment that is most promising in the 1- to 3-year view?
Sebastian Roll: Yes. I mean, infrastructure was --- infrastructure is very interesting for us, but also aviation. I mean I can just underline that this was really a big step for us now in 2026 to have, let's say, a reentry in the aviation area. Yes, so this was very important for us. So we worked on this the whole last year to get in this business again. And we are also there right now offering additional projects right now, but also infrastructure, yes. So infrastructure end of last year and I mean, also in Life Science, Pharma is promising. So we are -- right now, we are happy that there's not only the one. There are now different areas where we would like to expand our business.
Charles Michaels: Got it. The drone business, obviously, is getting a lot of visibility, and there's such a big push for more defense spending. I -- could it be that you could have some sort of upside, almost surprise coming from that business?
Sebastian Roll: I mean we are working on this. We are very hard working on this. So what we have -- so I mean, as you know, we have now production solutions to manufacture, I don't know, 50,000, 100,000 units per month or whatever, yes. So we have now a very scalable production solution for each customer, even if there's still only a few hundreds or a few thousands a year. For us, what we did in the end of last year was to say, okay, maybe let's try to get more even with end-of-line testing because even if someone is manufacturing not in a very automated way, end-of-line testing, and we knew it from the tests here with the German Armed Force end-of-line testing for quality is something everybody is searching for. And there, we developed in our point of view, a really competitive system, and we try to step in with this end-of-line testing and then afterwards to get the customer and to convince him to automate other topics in addition.
Operator: And we're moving on to our chat questions. Could you elaborate on potential orders for human reads.
Sebastian Roll: Yes. I mean, I would say it's -- for sure, this is something where we try to step in also because what we see there are very specific E-motors in different areas. So -- and for sure, we have a focus on this, and this would be a great entry for us. And yes, we are working on this topic. But it's -- unfortunately, it's too early to say that we are already successful in this area. A little bit too early.
Operator: And the last question for now, how strong is the competition in Europe for E-mobility for your products?
Sebastian Roll: I think also this question we had several times and from time to time, I have the feeling that the question is more if the Chinese are entering the European market or something like this. So I think it's important to say that we are dealing with Chinese competition, I don't know, for more than 10 years, 15 years, something around this. So in general, we don't see a change there. It's more the question that our customers now have to make the decisions. And this is more important for us that there's -- competition is there's always competition in automotive, but we are not frightened for this. So nothing changed on this topic.
Jan-Henrik Pollitt: When we are looking at the number of competitors, I would say there is more market consolidation because there are other competitors who are more under pressure than we are from a balance sheet perspective. But of course, on the price level, there's always somebody fighting for their lives and that is getting a bit more hard, but that's normal in such a situation, and we keep concentrated on achieving at least okay margins. And we know that if the market rebounds, then it's always important to have enough capacities to execute good margin orders instead of hunting all these difficult margin orders in times where the market is softer.
Operator: Thank you very much. And there are 2 more questions coming in. The first is a hand up from [indiscernible] and we are back in line. We are moving on to the chat question. Why is your expected guidance for margin so much lower in 2026?
Jan-Henrik Pollitt: Yes. So I mean that's a mixed effect. Of course, when we see 2025 and also 2026, we lost a relevant part of our revenue. So we have more or less a bit more pressure coming from the operational cost of the company, administrative costs. So we didn't reduce the company to the current revenue level to keep capacity left for additional growth again. Therefore, one part of the margin pressure comes a little bit from our internal structures and the other part, of course, comes from the softer market. So we saw during 2025 that we had higher price pressures in the few projects which had been in the market at that point in time. So the order backlog lost a bit margin quality, which is normal while business is running a bit slower. And that's the reason why we have the more conservative margin guidance in 2026. And for '27, we need to have an eye on order intake '26. So this will be very relevant when making our minds on the 2027 revenue and earnings perspective.
Operator: Thank you very much. And with that, ladies and gentlemen, we have come to the end of today's earnings call. Thank you very much for your interest in the Aumann AG. A big thank you also to you, Sebastian and Jan-Henrik for your presentation and your time. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any further questions later on, please feel free to contact Investor Relations. And with that, I wish you all a successful day and handing back over to Sebastian for some final remarks.
Sebastian Roll: Yes. Thank you. So I hope we have shown that Aumann will also be stable in terms of profitability in 2026. Unfortunately, another challenging year in the automotive industry. So internally, we concentrate ourselves on optimizing cost structure. But even more important is that we are building up new sales opportunities, as you have seen in the area of Next Automation. And there, we see significant potential for the company, and we are confident that the results will follow. So thank you very much for your interest, and we look forward to see you maybe at one of the next conferences.